Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205
04/28/2005 08:30 AM Senate JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB54 | |
| HB149 | |
| HB184 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 106 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 149 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 184 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 81 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 54 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 149 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 127 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 186 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 187 | TELECONFERENCED | |
CSHB 149(FIN) AM-CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES
9:02:10 AM
CHAIR RALPH SEEKINS announced HB 149 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR GRETCHEN GUESS moved Version \M as the working document
before the committee.
CHAIR SEEKINS objected for the purpose of discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE JAY RAMRAS introduced HB 149. Crystal
methamphetamine (meth) is a growing and extreme danger to
society and causes irreparable damage to the user and the
community. Accelerated crime is the byproduct of meth. HB 149 is
a bill that has evolved to include the best sections of SB 70
and SB 106.
9:06:14 AM
Meth is "cooked" in "mom and pop" laboratories, which are
problematic due to the extreme dangers of the chemicals
involved. A Fred Meyer employee advised Rep. Ramras she has seen
several people get out of a vehicle and come to the counter one
at a time to purchase the maximum amount of Sudafed. She has
taken down license numbers to turn in to the Department of
Public Safety (DPS). Paint store people know the difference
between painters and people who use products such as acetone for
illegal intent.
9:08:17 AM
The process of cooking meth is highly dangerous. It can cause
fires and explosions. It endangers law enforcement and other
emergency responders as well as the general public. For every
pound of meth, seven pounds of toxic waste are released into the
environment. Officials have seen meth cookers use the same
equipment to cook food for their children exposing them to
horrible poisons.
9:09:37 AM
HB 149 will have a major impact on the availability of criminals
to purchase certain precursors to methamphetamine. There are
three necessary ingredients used to make meth, Pseudo ephedrine,
iodine crystals, and red phosphorus. HB 149 proposes to restrict
the amount of Pseudo ephedrine a person can purchase to nine
grams in a 30-day period. Single ingredient Pseudo ephedrine
products will be kept behind a service counter with a log
available to law enforcement. Iodine purchases will also be
logged. HB 149 is not meant to disrupt commerce.
9:11:30 AM
HB 149 creates requirements for wholesalers, distributors,
manufacturers and retailers who sell Pseudo ephedrine and iodine
products. Knowingly violating these requirements is a class A
misdemeanor punishable by a fine up to $10,000. HB 149 makes it
a crime of manslaughter for manufacturing or delivery of certain
drugs to a person who dies from its ingestions, whether death is
the intent of the meth cook or not. The bill increases the bond
for a meth manufacturer with a prior conviction to a minimum of
$250,000 cash only bond. Presumptive sentencing where there is a
child present would be increased. The bill would also make
anabolic steroids a class VA controlled substance. The bill
amends the statutes that require the Department of Environmental
Conservation (DEC) to keep certain information on contaminated
drug manufacture sites on their website.
9:13:18 AM
Senator Gretchen Guess, Senator Waggoner, the commissioner of
DEC, and several others met to address realtors who were
concerned they would be held liable for not disclosing a piece
of real estate had previously been the site of a meth clean up.
In the effort to increase criminal penalties as a deterrent to
meth labs it would be of great benefit to require landlords to
do a better job of screening tenants. Currently landlords are
either passively or actively contributing to the meth lab
problem.
9:15:19 AM
The economic value of a meth-free property is of greater value
than of one that is a toxic site. HB 149 would force property
owners to be more stringent as to who they bring into their
buildings and properties.
9:16:31 AM
SENATOR CHARLIE HUGGINS asked the level of contamination of a
property after three weeks working as a meth lab.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS deferred the question to Senator Guess.
SENATOR GUESS explained the naked eye could see meth chemicals
on the walls even after painting. An illegal lab could be very
neat or very messy or in between.
9:19:04 AM
CHAIR SEEKINS announced the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee
would not hear HB 81 today.
SENATOR HUGGINS asked the recourse for when the landlord does
not know the property is being damaged.
CHAIR SEEKINS responded there was a bill that passed through the
Senate Judiciary Standing Committee that required a mandatory
clean up of the property.
SENATOR GUESS clarified it required demonstrating to DEC that
the chemicals were not at hazardous levels. The threshold was
low but purposefully put into regulation.
9:21:20 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS expressed concern that HB 149 would cause a
landlord to clean up the property without a course to recoup any
costs.
SENATOR GUESS advised it was addressed in a previous bill. She
offered to provide the statute to Senator Huggins.
9:23:05 AM
Senator Gene Therriault joined the committee.
SENATOR HUGGINS asked Rep. Ramras whether he has considered
alternative sources of meth supplies.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS stated in California people have altered
trucks to look like FedEx trucks and they carry stolen cases of
Sudafed. Juneau is known to be more of a commercial market.
Pfizer and other pharmaceutical companies are trying to find
ways to cooperate and make their products more difficult to use
for cooking meth.
9:25:28 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS continued the expectation is the more
difficult it is to make the meth, their efforts will go
elsewhere. The priority is to overtake the meth laboratories
because they overwhelm law enforcement efforts.
SENATOR HOLLIS FRENCH questioned whether the intent was to
mandate record keeping for all products containing Pseudo
ephedrine.
9:27:49 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS explained meth cooks could cook out 90
percent of the Pseudo ephedrine from the single ingredient cold
medicine and that is what they have targeted.
9:29:22 AM
MS. JANE PIERSON, staff to Representative Jay Ramras, commented
the record keeping provision was kept in the bill for all Pseudo
ephedrine products since meth cookers will naturally evolve to
the multi ingredient products once the single ingredient
products become controlled.
SENATOR FRENCH asked the percentage of the products that contain
the most Pseudo ephedrine.
SENATOR GUESS explained Section A pertains to the wholesaler,
manufacturer, distributor level. A log will be kept at that
level detailing which products go to which places. Section B is
the retailer level. Section C details the behind the counter
requirements. Sole active ingredient medicines are kept behind
the counter and require a log. Combination products would only
go behind the counter if DPS put them in regulations. If there
is a problem with a combination drug it can be dealt with in
future legislation.
9:32:27 AM
CHAIR SEEKINS suggested Ms. Pierson lead a section-by-section
analysis of HB 149. He asked Ms. Pierson whether there were
changes to Section 2.
MS. PIERSON reported the changes in Section 2 relate to Section
3, which encompasses hard drugs and date rape drugs.
9:36:22 AM
MS. PIERSON stated Section 3 makes it a class A felony to
manufacture or deliver a precursor to meth to a person who
intends to use the chemical to manufacture meth.
SENATOR FRENCH clarified immediate precursors are ephedrine,
Pseudo ephedrine, crystal iodine and red phosphorous.
CHAIR SEEKINS argued Pseudo ephedrine is not an immediate
precursor because the chemical substance has to first be
extracted.
9:38:48 AM
MS. PIERSON commented under AS 11.71.020 misconduct involving a
controlled substance in the second degree is a class A felony.
CHAIR SEEKINS wondered about the word "immediate." He said the
committee was trying to tie this to intent or reckless
disregard.
9:41:43 AM
SENATOR GUESS mentioned Section 4 was the section where
"hoarders" were discussed and she has an amendment for the
committee to consider that protects people who are lawful users
of certain chemicals.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS added law enforcement would prefer a six-
gram limit but after much debate the limit was raised to nine
grams. Accumulation of Sudafed is the key component for crystal
methamphetamine cooks.
9:44:30 AM
SENATOR GUESS moved Amendment 1. Hearing no objections, the
motion carried.
24-LS0596\M.1
Luckhaupt
11/3/05
A M E N D M E N T 1
OFFERED IN THE SENATE
TO: SCS CSHB 149( ), Draft Version "M"
Page 4, lines 2 - 16:
Delete "The prima facie evidence described in this
subsection does not apply to a person who possesses the listed
chemicals ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, or
the salts, isomers, or salts of isomers of those chemicals
(1) and the listed chemical was dispensed to the
person under a valid prescription; or
(2) in the ordinary course of a legitimate
business, or an employee of a legitimate business, as a
(A) retailer or as a wholesaler;
(B) wholesale drug distributor licensed by
the Board of Pharmacy;
(C) manufacturer of drug products licensed
by the Board of Pharmacy;
(D) pharmacist licensed by the Board of
Pharmacy; or
(E) health care professional licensed by
the state."
Insert "The prima facie evidence described in this
subsection does not apply to a person who possesses
(1) the listed chemicals ephedrine,
pseudoephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, or the salts,
isomers, or salts of isomers of those chemicals
(A) and the listed chemical was dispensed
to the person under a valid prescription; or
(B) in the ordinary course of a legitimate
business, or an employee of a legitimate business, as
a
(i) retailer or as a wholesaler;
(ii) wholesale drug distributor
licensed by the Board of Pharmacy;
(iii) manufacturer of drug products
licensed by the Board of Pharmacy;
(iv) pharmacist licensed by the Board
of Pharmacy; or
(v) health care professional licensed
by the state; or
(2) less than 24 grams of ephedrine,
pseudoephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, or the salts,
isomers, or salts of isomers of those chemicals in a home
or business establishment under circumstances that are
consistent with typical medicinal or household use, as
indicated by factors that include storage location,
purchase date, possession of the products in a variety of
strengths, brands, types, purposes, and expiration dates;
the exception provided in this paragraph does not apply if
the substances in excess of nine grams were all purchased
within a period of thirty consecutive days unless purchased
by a legitimate business for use in the ordinary course of
the business."
9:45:54 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS asked the correlation between steroids and
methamphetamines.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS responded there was none. HB 149 is an
opportunity to address the steroid issue.
SENATOR HUGGINS asked where high school students get steroids.
SENATOR FRENCH answered certain gyms are known areas to meet
people who supply steroids. He speculated a person could also
get them over the Internet.
9:48:19 AM
CHAIR SEEKINS reviewed Sections 7, 8, and 9.
SENATOR GUESS asked Ms. Pierson whether Section 9 was the same
language that was passed out of the Senate Judiciary Standing
Committee.
MS. PIERSON responded yes.
9:50:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS recognized there are relationships between
crimes and penalties and wished it were a more severe crime to
handle manufacturing of drugs around children.
9:52:07 AM
SENATOR GUESS moved Amendment 2. Hearing no objections, the
motion carried.
24-LS0596\M.2
Luckhaupt
11/3/05
A M E N D M E N T 2
OFFERED IN THE SENATE
TO: SCS CSHB 149( ), Draft Version "M"
Page 9, line 29:
Delete the second occurrence of "or"
Page 9, line 29, following "crystal iodine":
Insert ", or (3) any other ingredient when required by the
Department of Public Safety by regulation,"
9:54:51 AM
SENATOR GUESS asked Ms. Pierson to explain the amendment by the
House regarding Section 12, subsection (d).
MS. PIERSON advised the House Judiciary Standing Committee
worried that a person who reported "smurfing" could be held
guilty of a crime.
CHAIR SEEKINS stated the confidentiality section has to do with
the registry.
9:58:26 AM
SENATOR FRENCH stated Section 12, subsection (f) deals with how
the retailer keeps the logs. A law enforcement agency has to
request the log.
MS. PIERSON agreed.
SENATOR FRENCH asked Ms. Pierson to explain the subsequent six-
month period.
MS. PIERSON explained it was added so the retailer didn't have
to maintain too many records. A law enforcement agency would
have to request the logs every six months.
SENATOR FRENCH asked whether it was an ongoing request.
MS. PIERSON responded yes.
10:00:15 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS advised a floor debate in the House
resulted in a compromise that allowed retailers to mail the log
records to the Department of Public Safety. The subsequent six-
month period was meant for a broad interpretation for the DPS or
local law enforcement to have immediate access to the records.
SENATOR FRENCH admitted he was unclear as to how Section 12,
subsection (f) would work. He asked whether a law enforcement
agency could require every pharmacy in the city to mail them
their log of ephedrine sales for the following six-month period.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS said that was the intent but agreed it was
unclear.
CHAIR SEEKINS said the transmittal of information could be
either electronically or by mail.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS said the intent was to empower law
enforcement.
10:04:22 AM
CHAIR SEEKINS asked whether it would ever be used. He suggested
a sunset to see if it works. He hesitated to put a burden on the
business owners if no one ever used the tool.
10:06:46 AM
SENAOR THERRIAULT agreed with the sunset.
SENATOR GUESS moved Amendment 3.
24-LS0596\M.3
Luckhaupt
11/3/05
A M E N D M E N T 3
OFFERED IN THE HOUSE
TO: SCS CSHB 149( ), Draft Version "M"
Page 12, line 4:
Delete "and"
Page 12, line 5, following "address":
Insert ", and owner's name at the time the notice was
issued"
Page 12, line 13, following "use.":
Insert "The property shall remain on the lists or databases
for five years after it is determined that the property is fit
for use and shall be removed from the lists or databases within
three months after the five year period has elapsed."
CHAIR SEEKINS objected for discussion.
SENATOR GUESS explained Section 13 and Section 14 were added in
the House Finance Standing Committee in response to a bill
passed three years ago. It would post meth lab real estate on
the DPS Internet website for a 5-year period.
10:10:36 AM
CHAIR SEEKINS stated a real estate agent should be compelled
through their own rules to disclose any viable information
regarding the property.
SENATOR HUGGINS added the seller's agent is required to
delineate any flaws of the property.
SENATOR FRENCH stated there were limits. A homicide or suicide
that happens on the property is required to be reported to the
buyer but being a known drug house may not have to be.
CHAIR SEEKINS voiced he supported a requirement of realtors to
research and disclose whether the property had been used as a
drug house at any time during the previous five years.
SENATOR FRENCH expressed there is currently nothing in real
estate disclosure laws that mandate it.
10:13:14 AM
SENATOR GUESS said that disclosure could be put into real estate
regulations through the real estate board.
CHAIR SEEKINS removed his objection to Amendment 3. Hearing no
further objections, Amendment 3 was adopted.
SENATOR GUESS stated it is necessary to get the minimum
information in the log that is helpful to DPS and yet not be
cumbersome for the retailers.
10:16:27 AM
CHAIR SEEKINS asked Rep. Ramras to suggest a period of time for
a sunset clause using the logbook.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS deferred to the committee.
10:18:26 AM
MR. GLEN PETERSON, Carrs/Safeway, introduced himself and several
people in the room. The issue for retailers is more about random
theft from the meth rings. Several measures have been instituted
already such as putting the product behind the counter. Since
then theft is down 85 percent. The purchases of the product
stayed the same, which proved meth cookers were stealing it.
Responsible retailers have already removed the ephedrine
products from the shelves. HB 149 in its current form would put
an enormous burden on retailers. With 25 stores it would be
difficult to know if someone purchased more than 9 grams in a
30-day period.
10:21:35 AM
MR. PETERSON asked the committee to work on the bill until it
was user friendly.
CHAIR SEEKINS asked Mr. Peterson to comment regarding the sunset
discussion.
MR. PETERSON agreed a sunset clause is good idea.
10:24:23 AM
SERGEANT TIMOTHY BIRT, Alaska State Troopers, said 100 percent
of the meth manufactured in Alaska was through Pseudo ephedrine
diverted products. There is no way to determine how much of the
Pseudo ephedrine in the state is used for lawful purposes. The
cooperation of retailers has been extremely helpful in locating
meth cooks and meth labs.
10:26:22 AM
SERGEANT BIRT said the nature of meth cooks is paranoia and
secrecy and it is very common for them to move around a lot.
Some have been known to move several times in a 6-month period.
10:28:22 AM
DETECTIVE KRUT KORNCHUK, narcotics unit, Anchorage Police
Department, testified in support of HB 149. He suggested the
committee use language similar to essential chemicals. The
laboratory definition of precursor is a chemical that becomes
part of a finished product, and lye, iodine, and red phosphorus
do not become part of the finished product. He suggested the
sunset period be a minimum of 5 years with an additional 2-year
extension. Laboratories in Washington have successfully
extracted Pseudo from liquid cold medicines and also from
powders such as Theraflu. The National Drug Intelligence Center
has seen an increase in the use of secondary products that have
smaller amounts of Pseudo ephedrine in states that have adopted
regulations against main ingredient products.
10:31:12 AM
SENATOR GUESS advised Mr. Peterson Version \M takes care of most
of his stated concerns. She said it was never the intent that
the retailer would have any responsibility regarding someone
purchasing more than nine grams.
CHAIR SEEKINS held HB 149 in committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|